“The Nomad” is a fortnightly published series where I talk to expat PR and Comms professionals, then delve into the insights which inform and help other people to live or to do business in an intercultural world. If you or someone you know would be happy to share their perspective, please get in touch! I’d love to hear from you.
As part of my series about how we can learn from different cultures to embed them into PR and comms practices to help create positive social impact and overcome communication barriers, I sat down with Rebecca Sangster-Kelly, Comms and Stakeholder Management Coach and Internal Comms specialist at Studium Consulting.
Having been working in Communications for more than ten years, across different sectors including Energy, Financial Services, Public Sector, and Life Sciences with Change and Communications Manager assignments based in HR, Digital/Technology, Marketing, and Regulatory, to name a few, Rebecca brings a whole host of experience and expertise to empower her clients to communicate effectively and reduce noise in a tumultuous era.
We discussed everything stakeholder management, change management, and how to work and function in a different culture. Rebecca also shared her thoughts on “women in PR” and how we can help create a more inclusive and flexible working environment for working mums in PR and Comms.
Hi Rebecca, how are you doing? What’s been keeping you busy?
I’m doing all right. It’s nearing a year since I launched Studium, managing multiple clients, and my pipeline – never a dull moment. What am I doing? I am helping people communicate and also looking at what’s going on in different organisations I’m in and seeing where I can add value by making things easier for people.
For instance, I had a call with someone and found out that post-COVID ‘work from home’ directives, there was a desk challenge. Since non-essential staff were out of the office, other site-based teams took over desks in another area and a few people were displaced. So I’ve made some calls to figure out how we can change this, which seems outside my communication remit, but when you’re doing any change, and when you want to reach people, these are the kinds of things — even if it seems minor and someone else’s issue — it removes the noise and the issue, and the irritation they’re having so they can listen to the key messages. So if there’s a way to make things calmer for people, they won’t be distracted from the message you’re trying to land, otherwise, in the back of their head, it will be “That changes but where’s my desk?”
What motivates you to produce brilliant weekly bite-size content videos, combining your passion for running and internal comms?
The original goal of the videos was to make sure non-comms business people were aware that communications is a skilled and process-driven activity. It’s not something that you just do or that you just put content out there, so that was the motivation. What it’s turned into is a place for me to share best practice, as well as highlight poor practices in a positive and constructive way. So whenever there’s something that really irritates me, I think it over, I consider how we can look at this differently, and how this can be a learning for others. That’s why I do it.
You did share that you wanted to become a fighter pilot and be active politically to set the country right. Does it have anything to do with that desire to set the country right?
Yes, when I was small, those were my career goals. The fighter pilot, not so much anymore, but with comms and stakeholder management, yes. When I look at what I do, it’s politics in the workplace. I studied Politics and International Relations at uni, and I understand and enjoy it. Now I apply it to the workplace – where you have people, you have politics. So, I bring and apply my skill set, my knowledge, adding in communications, and to make a difference.
Your work focuses a great deal on stakeholders management and change management. How do you define stakeholders management and why is it important for organisations and communicators?
When I look at stakeholder management, I think of it as an extension of managing our audiences as communicators. So we have an audience. As much as we want to reach and get people to do things, I want us to take an even bigger step and ask ourselves “Where do we want them to move to and away from?” So everything should be seen as a journey, as well as acknowledging that communication is a discussion with someone, otherwise, we’re broadcasting. Stakeholder management allows us to manage where we want to take people, as well as how we can leverage different people in groups in different situations. As a business changes its expectations and goals, it changes how that group or person is impacted, or how they benefit. Take it to a stakeholder level, and look at the motivations: what motivates someone to want to do a good job, what motivates someone to act badly? Looking at the motivations can help distil how someone will react to a message and can help us be more accurate with the execution of our engagement. If we know that that person is motivated by wanting to just work from home, to get their stuff done, and you want to bring them into the office, how are you going to do that? What’s going to be the fallout? Or is there a way to look at a compromise? Can you have a negotiation? So, for instance, when you say post-pandemic, a lot of expectations have been set during lockdown, people got into a new routine. People, as a rule, don’t like change, and they were forced into a change because of a virus. They hated it. And now, two years later, they’re like “that was fine, yeah, I’m okay with that change. Why are you trying to bring me into the office? I want to see my dog every day.” So these different motivations change with the situation. But we have to treat people as not just people who are going to accept or absorb our message, we need to approach it by asking “Why should they absorb it? How are they going to filter it through what they desire?”
Let’s talk about change management. We, as human beings, are hardwired to resist change and if we look into research, part of the brain—the amygdala—interprets change as a threat and releases the hormones for fear, fight, or flight, which means our body is actually protecting us from change. How can we take people on the journey of change, especially in the internal communications context? In other words, how can leaders and organisations effectively communicate that change to their employees?
An ever-important question. I touched on this in one of my Tuesday videos sharing 6 essential steps to take people on a journey: any transformation, any gigantic changes, unless you bring the people along the journey, the change is going to fail. As much as you might be investing in tech, as much as you might say “this process is great”, if you don’t translate it to the people and make it worthwhile for them to get on board and make it valuable to them, then you won’t be able to take them on a journey. So you need to invest that time and understand that people want to belong, and people need the attention. Just because you say as a leader “I’ve invested this money, this should happen”, it doesn’t mean it’s going to work. You may be used to saying “something is so” and it happens, but when you’re leading a big group, with a combination of people from many different backgrounds, many different purposes, many different roles, you have to look at how that change works, what else has been changed in their environment? Where else are they being pulled or pushed? You need to make the change real and relevant to them so that it doesn’t trigger a fear, fight or flight response. That it’s actually worth them investing energy thinking and participating.
This leads to a question of psychological safety, which you also mentioned in a recent video of yours and in a podcast. You mentioned the power of language (red language vs blue language by David Marquet; thinking vs. doing) and how might language help create and foster a psychologically safe environment. Can you elaborate on that, please?
People say they want the best talent, well, that means the best talents have opinions. They’ve seen things work, they’ve seen things fail. People won’t share their experience if they feel that their leader isn’t open to it.
During a client meeting, I asked a lot of questions but the colleague I’d prepped with was silent throughout the whole thing. I was thinking “Well, I thought you’d back me up”. Okay, fine, I’ll ask the questions. I realised afterward they didn’t feel they could ask because they didn’t feel psychologically safe. I felt psychologically safe because I knew I was brought in to challenge and that’s what I do. When I work with my clients, I challenge them, “but why are we doing this?” and I expect an answer. But if you don’t have that dynamic in your team, or with your client, you’re not going to feel comfortable making those statements or asking those questions. If you’re doing an icebreaker, like how many jellybeans are in the jar, and the leader goes first, studies have shown that when the leader shares it openly, the rest of the guesses will be 10% to 20% off that number. People won’t deviate far from a leader’s answer. Because no one wants to be wrong. However, if you do the same exercise, but hide everybody’s answers, you’re going to get more honest and objective answers. So, it’s about the language and the process, how are you going to get the best and varied answers out of people that are going to support decision making. Creating a space for psychological safety makes it okay to be different and we’re all working towards the same goal. The difference is actually what’s going to make us stronger. Unless you have that psychological safety, or at least that dynamic that allows for people to question, you’re not going to have a richness of input.
Now I guess an intercultural context will make that a bit trickier. Do you have any tips or advice to communicate effectively with people from different cultures? I don’t mean playbook as there’s no such thing as a “playbook” in my opinion, but what can we do as communicators to engage with them?
You always have to think of what works or how you get the most value out of your heritage. For me being a woman from North America, I have the right accent. Studies have found that people appreciate North American accent more in business. I will keep this accent, it’s not going to become British as hard as I try. I know that I don’t fit into the British stereotypes because of my accent so I can be more direct when I need to be; it’s not within their culture to be as direct. I’m not going to let it stop me and no one’s fired me because of it, so I continue doing it.
The second piece is, as a woman, I know that there are certain things I can ask about and other things that I can’t. There are other places where I can structure a conversation that will get the best out of a man who doesn’t want to be put on the spot or embarrassed. So it’s about being aware of those cultural pieces to support the objective. In these cases, I know I can’t be direct, because that would cause embarrassment. When it comes to us bringing our culture into a British sphere, or even when you work for a global company, there’s going to be the country culture, and then the company culture, which can have similarities or they can differ. There are certain times when I won’t ask something in a meeting, but I know who to go to, to bring that up, so they’ll have it covered since I know that I don’t have the clout to be heard, or if I bring it up, I’ll make someone look bad. I need to make sure that this comes out of my stakeholder management; I make sure that the person knows what’s coming, so that they’re not taken aback, or feel vulnerable. It’s about investing the time and treating people as people. Understanding that treating everyone with respect, and recognising that social challenges aren’t always a barrier, but need to be managed in a different way.
The PR & communications industry is female-dominated (67%) overall. However, at senior levels, it becomes male-dominated with only a third of boardroom positions taken by women (Women in PR, 2021), and things might be more difficult when/after you’re pregnant. We heard about the “Pregnant then Screwed” initiative that highlights the true scale of the crisis facing working mums. Being a working mom, what’s your take on that? What can we do to improve equality and diversity across the industry by increasing the number and diversity of women in leadership roles?
From the different women I’ve talked to, there is a common nervousness about when to and how you tell your employer that you’re pregnant, because even though they advertise it as a benefit and such, you can anticipate how people are going to react to it and you hear a lot of people getting sidelined. When the word pregnant comes up, you’re viewed through a different lense. Quite a few times, when I informed colleagues at work that I was pregnant, our dynamic changed. And I wasn’t imagining this because when I was working from home no one could know I was pregnant unless I told them. One benefit of the pandemic: not worrying about hiding a bump.
That said, I had other reasons for going independent and starting my company, instead of taking maternity leave. I wanted the freedom that it would bring me. I wanted to be able to call the shots on what I worked on, what I didn’t, and negotiate and manage my own working hours – I’d never have this autonomy if I’d stayed. I’d been toying around with the idea for a few years and it was a convenient time to take a break. I actually started client work earlier than I expected because the clients got in touch. I gave myself nine months to build up a client base; four months in, I was already working on projects with a focus on the deliverables, rather than the number of hours I put in that week.
However, going back to your original question, I think it’s influencing the industry’s understanding and also a deeper cultural piece of how bias impacts people with families. When I put my baby in nursery, I felt relieved because he got to the point in his development that I knew that I needed someone who could keep him engaged, keep him entertained, because he’s an intelligent kid, and he needs a lot of effort. And I’m not equipped for that. But I haven’t seen that portrayal in the media. I haven’t seen anyone ever talking about feeling relieved with their baby in nursery. Every woman’s story is different. We need to give space and respect to those who want to stay on maternity leave longer and there are others, such as myself, who are like “I love my kid and I love my work”. If we’re going to support women’s choices, we need to do it fully. We have to acknowledge the stereotypes that are keeping women from being able to make a comeback fully supported to rejoin the workplace, with managers and HR more open to flexible options of what work can and contribution to the company can look like, than a cookie-cutter view of the ‘ideal’ employee’s role.
The government is looking at making flexible working mandatory for any role unless there’s a business case. That would be great for everyone, not just pregnant women, not just mothers, that’s for human beings who want to do their job. You give them flexibility. I’d like to see someone do the numbers of the cost of recruitment replacement cost when someone leaves the workforce due to lack of flexibility. I’m sure that having happy employees who stay makes you more money, and you save money in replacing them. We need to think pragmatically about it in numbers. If more women are working, more tax money is being collected, more money is going to the government, and more money is going into the economy. So why is that a bad thing? Why do you want to take talent out of the workforce?
This isn’t a woman’s issue, it’s a human being issue. We have to treat people with equity. We have to treat people with respect. Fundamentally most want to get the best out of their employees, and people want to do a good job. So treat them like adults.
We’ve come to the last question already. If you can bring anything from Canada with you to the UK, let’s say food or any part of the “authentic” culture, what would it be?
So it’s not about culture, not about food, it’s about Polysporin. You can get antibiotic ointment off the shelf. You need a prescription in this country. When you have a painful zit, when you have a cut, Polysporin helps! And I want my bottle of Motrin! I’ve had friends go back home and they bring me back Polysporin and Motrin!
