“The Nomad” is a fortnightly published series where I talk to expat PR and Comms professionals, then delve into the insights which inform and help other people to live or to do business in an intercultural world.
The whole world was talking about OceanGate’s Titan submersible. The submarine had been on a voyage to see the wreck of the Titanic before it lost contact with those above the water on June 18 and went missing for four days. Everyone tried to weigh in their opinions; brands did the same. On one hand, it’s sad, devastating and catastrophic; on the other hand, it found its way into pop culture and was on everyone’s mind – the internet’s response to the tragedy has sparked the creation of numerous memes and jokes in the “eat the rich” vein, focusing on the wealthy passengers who paid $250,000 per person for their ill-fated journey. What a time to be alive.
Kev O’Sullivan thought about it. He was a bit concerned about the submarine and felt for those people and their loved ones but from a pop culture point of view, “it was a little bit hilarious because the circus around it was insane.”
There are some invisible bonds between us. If there’s anything that can unionise queer people, it’s pop culture – and iced coffee – even though some people might argue it could be due to the oppression and trauma of living in a straight men’s world. When Kev mentions that Sex and the City was one of the reasons that got him into PR, I immediately feel I’ve found my twin spirit.
Kev O’Sullivan is currently a senior partner at FleishmanHillard and has conceived and consulted on some of the highest-profile brands and organisations in the world. Kev is known for his award-winning work on the European Union, McDonald’s, Nike, Samsung, HSBC and AT&T. He moved to LA post-pandemic to join FH’s 50-strong office of PR innovators, creatives and planners that collaborates with their network of 1000’s.
The interview is not only about bringing our own language (gay rights!) to the masses but also about the story of someone with a burning desire to change the industry for the better. And I’m not talking about myself.
First of all, are you looking forward to the next season of American Horror Story? Are you excited more for Emma Roberts or Kim Kardashian?
Oh, wow, you’re gonna make me choose? Well, I’m very excited about Emma Roberts because she’s obviously a stalwart of the American Horror Story universe. But I think it’s very fun and cool that Kim is going to be making an appearance because as much as I hate to say it, she is pop culture.
How did you get into PR and Comms?
Well, I grew up in the 80s and 90s in London, and I had a real adoration for advertising. I thought that would be a really fun thing to do. And then Sex and the City came along – you’ll learn that I’m a big fan of all camp and LGBT- friendly TV shows. It told me PR should be my destiny.
If you could describe yourself in three words, what would they be?
Determined, generous and enthusiastic.
How do you reflect on your career?
It’s been so thrilling. Even when it’s been difficult or challenging, I’ve always been happy. That’s because I love what we do as professionals. If people could see the inside of our brains, they would be pleasantly surprised by just how agile and dynamic the experiences of working in our industry are. We have everything from business consultants to creatives, from visionaries to doers. So much of the time, it’s about getting your hands dirty and getting the work done and I love that for us. I always think there are so many jobs that are practical and hands-on. For me, PR is one of those roles where it’s a combination of an intellectual process and creating things at the same time. I love it.
I saw you changed your bio to “Integrated marketing” on LinkedIn. Was there a reason for it?
Integrated marketing is something that PR-minded talents do all the time. You’re always thinking of one core idea that can catch fire across all of the channels. The problem we had in the past is that creative agencies owned so much of the integrated marketing mix, and PR has always been a little bit of a channel in the back that’s waiting for the bigger brief to come through. Screw that. We are particularly in the age of conversation. It needs a public relations expert to be driving those bigger ideas that can cut through all of the communications and marketing channels. Rather than waiting for CMOs or CEOs to pass that brief through to creative agencies, I’d say “Give it to us, we’ll do a much better job of it.”
You have been working in the industry for a long time, working with the biggest agencies on some biggest brands. How far have we come?
It’s changed a lot in my 20 years. The one thing that I am most happy about is the revolution in inclusion across the UK and the US. I remember going to a graduate recruitment day back in 2003 for a rather large agency, and there were no people of colour. I think I was the only gay person in the mix. There were certainly no people who I think identified as anything other than white, straight and very clearly middle class. So much has changed since then. While brands that we work for have done a great job of leading the charge there, actually it’s agency leaders in the US and the UK who have been really courageous. We have a long way to go; it’s not where it needs to be. But in terms of what’s happened in even the past five years, I feel really excited. What’s also happened with that is we’ve had a diversity of ideas as well. That’s why someone like me can say “Hey, I’m an integrated marketing specialist” because the breadth of approaches that come from my colleagues and from our industry has really diversified over those past five years which has helped build out our strategic and creative confidence.
You talked about one of many realisations during your time (for example, it’s kinda upside-down that Americans think of Brits as really proper, as Americans appear to lean more towards the hierarchy). What were the challenges when you moved to L.A.?
I think you and I are quite similar in terms of the media and pop culture that we consume and absorb. Growing up, I always felt that I was a little bit of an expert in the American Zeitgeist. But actually, you realise that we’re only getting – whether it’s the UK or Ireland or Vietnam – a certain amount of that culture exported to us. Before I moved here, whether it was retailers or journalists or certain TV shows, I didn’t even know they existed. So building up my pop cultural database in my brain has been steep.
One thing that’s really also changed for me is scale. I’ve always considered myself a global practitioner, but that’s coming from a rather small island that recently separated from the European Union. So there’s a certain limitation to how global you can be. Meanwhile, in the US, which is five times the population of the UK, it’s much larger and has more social, racial and economic differences. I feel like I’ve had a real masterclass in what big feels like. I’ve also learned that the US doesn’t necessarily deserve the negative reputation that it’s built up globally. When you come in, people are smart, kind and virtuous. In my time I’ve heard some very negative commentary about what the UK is and what the USA is and what it stands for but I’ve enjoyed the people and life here. I’ve been in California for a while, but I’ve also travelled to several other states. A bit of a reputational shift has occurred for me with Americans.
The creative industry has a DE&I problem. While there’s progress made along the way, little has changed. How could we ensure we’re’ driving the DE&I agenda forward to make it more inclusive and accessible?
The inclusion word has really tested me and several of my colleagues lately. So for instance, if I were to recruit a person from Asia, it is not on that person to emulate the culture that I know and love. It’s on me to find ways to embrace and celebrate your culture, to respect our differences and to make you feel intellectually secure so that your individuality can flourish. That is much more behavioural than hiring someone because they are a person of colour. It’s actually hiring that person and making sure that they have the right level of engagement so they can be themselves and lean into their own cultural norms. But it’s tough because that’s hard to measure and mandate. It’s just something that we have to have to learn to get better.
There was one thing you mentioned in a piece you’ve written for Creative Moment is the idea that Americans, especially in L.A, are about becoming somebody and making a name for themselves. How do you find it? What are the pros and cons?
At first, I thought it was important; I wanted to make a strong impression: going to every party, every event; meeting new people; building a strong Instagram following; being out there. But then I realised it’s all about the work you do and a good reputation through delivering good work. I wanted to build a profile for myself that wasn’t just ego-driven but carried some value. So I’ve been keener to use my voice to support particularly the LGBTQ+ community who are facing real hardship here in the US, and also to speak up on behalf of people of colour. It’s interesting how aware you become of your white, cis privilege here in the US. It’s important that my voice is geared toward people who have less of a voice.
This reminds me of this quote from RuPaul that we’re all born naked and the rest is drag, and the idea we’re trying to become somebody and present this idea to the world. In Japan, they say we have three faces – one for the world, one for friends and family and one nobody sees. From your experience, how do we navigate so that we don’t lose ourselves in the process?
That’s a great quote by an incredible person. For me, my drag was actually quite dangerous in the past. I suffered from or lived with alcoholism for a very long time. The only way to escape addiction problems is to find connection and authenticity. I often have to be careful that my drag isn’t taking over and the real Kev is available. The one thing that’s always helped me in recent years, though, is showing an interest in other people and I think making myself more available to people rather than just constantly barking at people has really helped. I’m not perfect, it’s still sometimes the Kev show, but I’m getting better.
What’s your advice for brands looking to launch or enter a market over the pond?
One piece of advice is to get a lot of money because the scale of everything here is so big. Interestingly, I’ve found a passion here for international brands that represent something of the place or culture where they originate.
it’s obvious that the French or Italian fashion brands still hold so much weight here simply because for many Americans, European brands are synonymous with a quality that hasn’t been achieved here. Equally, when you look more towards Asia Pacific or Korean brands that are linked to Korean culture, Americans are always looking for that international quality that doesn’t really exist here in the US. I would say it is important to lean into heritage or craftsmanship that is associated with local quality. Don’t try and launch something that you can mass produce in America because trust me, they’ve got enough of that.
What is the brand that you think is thriving in that aspect?
LVMH is, of course, the brand of the week in many ways. It’s interesting to see how an American creative director who has a very rich set of cultural icons as friends, predominantly American, is taking over Paris to export all of that luxury back to global audiences. So that’s an interesting equation. In terms of maybe smaller brands that are making an interesting wave here, one I love is APC. I think APC always punches above its weight globally. It’s also interesting to see just how the understated European, modern Parisian vibe translates so well to the wealthy American market. When you step into any of the APC stores here in LA, you feel like you’re stepping into a store in Paris or in Scandinavia.
“Gimmick” is a wrong word but I think Americans love a quirk, so surprising collaborations that provide a quirkiness happen quite often. It’s like the punchline of a joke. Some of those European brands are really good at collaborating with other brands to give that necessary twist to make it big here.
Speaking of LVMH and Pharrell Williams, what do you think of more and more celebrities becoming creative directors of brands?
It’s a tough job to do for sure. Someone like Pharrell Williams, who obviously takes his own creativity, his own artistry and his own brand very seriously, is a credible force to do that. It’s more like when Lady Gaga became the creative director of Polaroid that you realise it’s a publicity stunt. If they’re trying to target creative people with these creative products, then I think that the bullshit radar is quite high. We know when it’s a real deal and when it’s not. And if we don’t, then the media will tell us anyway. It’s all about authenticity.
We come to the end of our conversation. We both agree that Kim Kardashian is pop culture and Kylie Minogue can’t get out of our heads. I feel like it has just been five minutes. He’s going to the NeueHouse (a private workspace and cultural home by the beach that is only 200 meters from his house) where he feels like a creative rebel. And we need more rebels like Kev, who’s been a prominent advocate for fairness and justice. And just like that, I’m going away with so much food for thought.
